“Cigs aint’ going up to keep people healthier..
They’re going up because people can’t afford them and the tax is required.”
PFL:Our entire infrastructure is built (and depends on) on a shaken fizzy bottle of coke, it can’t run on cold milk.
me:now – that’s a penny dropped there! as more either give up or can’t afford, so cut or quit, gotta keep the books right… so its calculated on more “averages” and expectations. demand -not following whats really going on.
i am liking your analolgies, but they are a bit over my head…
PFL:It’s just physics.
me:are we talking volatile, unpredictable and messy?
· PFL:hahahahahaha!!! you are indeed, but the sytem thinks* your a barcode.
me:yeah – cattle, a unit. pah!
PFL:what’s the sytems biggest problem do you think?
me:me sitting here trying to understand how to change it…
and refusing to comply
me:when i spot its games
me:someone jokingly called me an anarchist this week. i don’t see myself as any kind of “ist” but took it as a compliment.
PFL:Our sytem has no trust in human nature (telling in itself) so it’s developed a ‘system’ of compliance as a check and balance for betterment (but only if you ‘progress’), that sytstem
is money, problem is….interest was added and pinned to a finite resource.
Now we know the destruction that’s been caused by that……. So….if we reversed it, how does that look?
me:firstly say i agree with the dehumanising of it all. i do have trust in human nature, cos i trust myself. i think the complaince needed comes from that first part. carrots and sticks.
PFL:Well..apart from a few on this planet…none of us have complied to the governance to the laws of nature, that’s why we’re where we are now.
me:and greed/money is at the heart. ty for that clarity. it makes sense. yeah, nature has got lost, buried under the need for more from as you say a finite, but imploding idea.
PFL:Imagine (if you will) that we actually valued a forest for it’s beauty, I mean monetary terms, so the wealth would be the health of the forest JUST…for what it is, not what can be made from it. So……the UK values biodeversity at say……double the rate of the now GDP? Ooops…fgot to mention…the money that we now value with…de-preciates (everything in nature erodes) so…it moves quicker within society (because it devalues) and the healthier our envirnomnet…..the welathier we are
me:my sense is that the system hasd run its course, can’t survive much longer, and the … intensity or ferocity of the current control is its last gasp. it knosws its dying, but is fighting back. had this sense of evolution for a while now. difficult. like humanity is just reaching puberty or something like that. painful and ultimately a natural growth process.
PFL:It’s already dead
me:(like yr forest – just processing that ♥) dead, you think so?
PFL:How does money look if it devalues? any sense in hoarding it?…would the pseudo ‘respect’ for individuals just …..faaaaaaaall away and be replaced by things like..wisdom? Been dead for 4 years, the engine stopped then, just the inertia of the flywheel thats ebbing out now.
me:hmmm – i see a dying, or dead system. rotting and the poison leeching out. many of us will probably be casualties of its demise, dragged down. due to dependency on it. but unless we manage to poison the whole planet, nature will rise again. and some of us wise enough to prepare ourselves for the next stage of our evolution will guide and teach the others who survive.
me:ah – 2008
PFL:Money has to change, untill we’re mature enough to do without it.
me:i hope that the awake and wiser of us will survive. and there will be much grieving to do for the old system.
i am really liking yr ideas here – its put into words things that have been dawning on me. how do you think money can change?
PFL:Just change it, it’s just an abstract idea of facilitating an energy exchange.
me:i don’t think we can get rid yet, but its part of my plan. it has become more and more meaningless, as you say its devalued.
emotionally and financially.
PFL:Not for at least 4-5 generations can we get rid (on a scale of the western billions at least)
me:yeah – its got too much power now. controls the whole of society.
damn – i wanted to be around when it was wortyhless. wanted to see the rich faces on that day! lol
is the plan coming along? the community? i would like to help if i can.
PFL:It’s not ‘it’..it’s the idea behind ‘it’ that gives the control, debt, humans feel obligated to pay debt, part of our societal cohesion, nice trait really…but easy to take advantage of.
me:abuse of human nature. symptom of a dysfunctuional relationship. rich/poor.
PFL:language, trickery by the sword.
me:i see money as symbolic of power, driven by fear. gone all fizzy coke again, or me being a bit brain dead,..
PFL:Nope…you’re right, symbol for what though?
me:nice observation about human nature.
a need to be in control. to avoid real risk. like addiction. avoids reality. but like a drug only lasts a short while, and then needs more. cos its never gonna fill the hole in any real sense.
but you get shiny toys very seductive, and a kind of fake beauty.
again a perversion of a natural desire.
me:perversion, hmmm… a hijacking due to lack of maturity. a settling for less. short sighted m,aybe
totally fear based. back to no real sense of faith in the self if you like
PFL:We had no comprehension of permaculture then though.
me:not knowing who we are is constant anxiety, and we look outside for confirmation… not familiar with permaculture?
PFL:The ancients ‘knew’ within their local, now we know (at least the basics) on a global scale.
HA!! permaculture is the truth , and then some.
me:permanent culture – sustainability?
a healthy relationship with the planet…
PFL:Of course, but in every aspect of our existance.
PFL:Kinda makes sense to at least be respectful of the very thing that supports your own life.
PFL:Tree, branch, saw…kinda thing.
me:indeed! i think it will be forced on humanity. we will have no choice as you say, the old system is knackered. gonna be a painful birth process. lots of being the change we want to see i suppose. but once you know, can’t un-know.
PFL:New system then?
me:i think once we get it, or start getting it we have to become it anyway. like getting taller. can’t get shorter again. its solid. yeah bring it on!
PFL:hahahahahaha, you got it ;-0)
have you read sacred economics?
me:lol i hadn’t found a way of expressing it the way you have here. nice – ta for that. don’t think so.
looked at zeitgeist and venus project and that feels good.
been bit busy fighting the system, but its time to move away and build now…
exactly what i need – to not be dependent on a dead system. pulled down by a sinking ship. yuk!
see what you think
Sacred Economics with Charles Eisenstein – A Short Film http://www.youtube.com Directed by Ian MacKenzie http://ianmack.com/ Produced by Velcrow Ripper, Gregg Hill, Ian MacKenzie
READ THE BOOKhttp://sacred-economics.com/HELP
me:ty for that – i feel this discussion has just started for me. will watch that tomorrow. need to sleep and dream now. this has been really enlightening.
me: hi watched a few bits -i think the essence of what CE is bang on there. very much again putting into words and plans what has been dawning on me, as i have observed what seems to be going on.
ty again for that. very enlightening conversation this.
PFL:You’re most welcome, it’s heartening to know others resonate with the simplicity, so thank you for that. Maybe you can take some confidence in knowing that these conversations are going on all the time, and….growing in their number ;-0)
ps………… you csn read Sacred economics online for free, Charles Eisenstein encourages it.
16 December 2012